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Difference between noun+to do+preposition VS noun+for doing (+preposition)

Difference between noun+to do+preposition VS noun+for doing (+preposition)

Through English grammar books, I understand that a proper preposition is always necessary when the verb in a to-infinitive before a noun is an intransitive verb, such as:

There is no place to play in.

But what about these forms?

A church is not a suitable place to play pop music in.
A church is not a suitable place for playing pop music in.
A church is not a suitable place for playing pop music.

The first and the last form look more natural to me, but I couldn’t find any clues about the differences between the second and the last form in English grammar books or dictionaries. I slightly remember that a Howard Sargeant's book about English preposition contains this content.

Which is grammatically correct between the second and the last form? What are the differences if both are available?



Top Answer/Comment:

Which is correct?

All of your examples are natural and correct enough, though two arguably are stylistically poor form.

A church is not a suitable place to play pop music in.

A church is not a suitable place for playing pop music in.

A church is not a suitable place for playing pop music.

The minor issue with the first two is that some hold that you should not end a sentence with a preposition. Commenters have pointed out that this is a particularly outdated grammatical 'rule' which has never really been followed anyway. Regardless, I would say the "in" is contextually obvious and therefore not necessary (I've put it in brackets hereafter, since it is optional).

A church is not a suitable place to play pop music (in).

A church is not a suitable place for playing pop music (in).

Where it is not contextually obvious what the preposition should be, you could reorganise the sentence and use a to-infinitive inside a relative clause. This avoids ending the sentence in a preposition (which, as mentioned, isn;t really necessary). You can't use a "for -ing" construction here.

A church is not a suitable place in which to play pop music.

This leaves you with 5 grammatically proper options:

A church is not a suitable place to play pop music (in).

A church is not a suitable place in which to play pop music.

A church is not a suitable place for playing pop music (in).

What are the differences? (Gerunds)

The "-ing" construction is a slightly obscure form of verb called a gerund. Essentially, the gerund is a verb turned into a noun. Often called a nounal-verb. Many verbs have associated nouns and gerunds are rarely used for these verbs, but it's quite trendy these days to use a gerund instead of a noun to emphasise the action-quality. e.g.

The working is hard | The work is hard

Adulting | (no associated noun)

Here, the gerund emphasises that it is the action of working which is hard, rather than the subject of the work. The very modern word "adulting" is a nounal-verb which has no associated noun - a classic use of a gerund.

When the nounal-verb is a subject, either a to-infinitive or a gerund may be used. e.g.

Seeing is believing = To see is to believe

When the nounal-verb plays other roles in sentence construction, you usually should use the gerund form.

To believe is a consequence of seeing

So back to your original examples, the nounal-verb is "to play" or "playing". If we were in a latin classroom, we would call this construction an "objective gerund" - the gerund describes what we ought to do (or not, in this case).

Summary

Analysing our three options in this light:

A church is not a suitable place to play pop music (in).

This is a more colloquial, less rigorous construction which relies on context clues. Essentially this is an acceptable abbreviation of the next option.

A church is not a suitable place in which to play pop music.

This expresses the objective (matter that ought (not) to be done) via a relative clause (in which...) and a to-infinitive.

A church is not a suitable place for playing pop music (in).

This expresses the objective via an objective gerund.

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